Topic Options
#105728 - 09/19/18 10:51 AM I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left
Wolfe4086 Offline
Slayer of Goth Booty
***

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: A Bunker near you
_________________________
“We have been God-like in our planned breeding of our domesticated plants and animals, but we have been rabbit-like in our unplanned breeding of ourselves.” Arnold J Toynbee

Top
#105729 - 09/19/18 10:52 AM Re: I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left [Re: Wolfe4086]
Wolfe4086 Offline
Slayer of Goth Booty
***

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: A Bunker near you
And what do we tell the illegal immigrants this day
_________________________
“We have been God-like in our planned breeding of our domesticated plants and animals, but we have been rabbit-like in our unplanned breeding of ourselves.” Arnold J Toynbee

Top
#105730 - 09/19/18 10:45 PM Re: I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left [Re: Wolfe4086]
Zin Online   waaaht-icon
Sir Sheldon
****

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 4146
Loc: Iowa
The only thing that sucks about that is now the kids really don't have parental guidance. Or at least not from both parents.

Now the question is... Is it worth it?

Top
#105731 - 09/20/18 10:51 AM Re: I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left [Re: Zin]
Wolfe4086 Offline
Slayer of Goth Booty
***

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: A Bunker near you
Originally Posted By: Zin
The only thing that sucks about that is now the kids really don't have parental guidance. Or at least not from both parents.

Now the question is... Is it worth it?


Yep send them back with their parents. We need to re-write the law so that unless you have parents that are US citizens or permanent residents you don't automagically get citizenship. That was intended for the slaves to be granted the same writes as others but now it is used to have anchor babies.

Anchor babies are not just for the poor it seems.

Even Canuckistan has this problem.
_________________________
“We have been God-like in our planned breeding of our domesticated plants and animals, but we have been rabbit-like in our unplanned breeding of ourselves.” Arnold J Toynbee

Top
#105732 - 09/20/18 04:01 PM Re: I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left [Re: Wolfe4086]
Fluffi Offline
Short-Arsed Git
*****

Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 658
Loc: England... Then Left A Bit
Originally Posted By: Wolfe4086


Got to be honest, I'm a bit confused here, as I (obviously, don't undersatnd your systems).....

Miguel & Maria are both technically "illegal immigrants", in that they sneaked into the US....


Maria (born in Mexico) currently has a job with "California Shit-House Cleaners Inc." She cleans toilets for whatever the US version of what we call "minimum wage" is.

Miguel (born in Mexico) currently works for "SoCal Golf Services." He kills moles on golf courses, for whatever the US version of what we call "minimum wage" is.

Both of these individuals are employed by, and being paid by American companies. Presumably, they are also paying taxes. If not, beat the shit out of their employers.


They have a 6-month-old son, called Pedro, who was born in California.


1) According to your national laws, do any of these individuals qualify for state support?
If so, which benefits would they qualify for?

2) According to your personal opinion, do any of these individuals qualify for state support?
If so, which benefits would they qualify for?


Obviously, I am:

1) speaking from a position of ignorance of your laws
&
2) pushing things a bit with my supposed example


Nevertheless.... *waits*
_________________________

Top
#105733 - 09/21/18 09:57 PM Re: I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left [Re: Fluffi]
Zin Online   waaaht-icon
Sir Sheldon
****

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 4146
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Fluffi
Originally Posted By: Wolfe4086


Got to be honest, I'm a bit confused here, as I (obviously, don't undersatnd your systems).....

Miguel & Maria are both technically "illegal immigrants", in that they sneaked into the US....

Correct. Although I would remove the quotation marks there. They ARE illegal immigrants.


Quote:
Maria (born in Mexico) currently has a job with "California Shit-House Cleaners Inc." She cleans toilets for whatever the US version of what we call "minimum wage" is.

Miguel (born in Mexico) currently works for "SoCal Golf Services." He kills moles on golf courses, for whatever the US version of what we call "minimum wage" is.

Alright.

Quote:
Both of these individuals are employed by, and being paid by American companies. Presumably, they are also paying taxes. If not, beat the shit out of their employers.

They are paying taxes. They are also paying less in taxes than they are receiving in food stamps. So the fact that they are paying taxes really doesn't mean anything even if you were going to go that route.


Quote:
They have a 6-month-old son, called Pedro, who was born in California.

Sure. I'm dumbfounded that they live there however. It would make a lot more sense to live somewhere that the cost of living was much lower, certainly when they don't have anything more than minimum wage skills.


Quote:
1) According to your national laws, do any of these individuals qualify for state support?
If so, which benefits would they qualify for?

Eh... I read that as... Does your Federal laws allow State laws to decide if individuals qualify for State Support.

If that's what you are asking... yes... It does.

The benefits that they qualify for would be up to the state. As it would be the state that would be paying said benefits.

Quote:
2) According to your personal opinion, do any of these individuals qualify for state support?
If so, which benefits would they qualify for?

I won't answer for anyone but myself.

I do not believe they SHOULD be able to qualify for state support. That does not mean they do not qualify. Only that I disagree that they do. States have more power than the federal government, according to the constitution, assuming of course they aren't reliant on federal money.

The only benefit I believe the state, or federal, government should qualify them for is a bus ticket back to Mexico.

Edit: That's not actually true I guess. I would still give them all the rights found in the bill of rights. With the understanding that I do not believe sending someone to their country of origin if not an American citizen as "cruel and unusual punishment." /Edit

I don't mind at all if people from Mexico want to migrate here. I don't even really care how many do. However I do believe they should do it lawfully. After you do it lawfully, you get benefits. Not before.


Quote:
Obviously, I am:

1) speaking from a position of ignorance of your laws
&
2) pushing things a bit with my supposed example


Nevertheless.... *waits*

I hope I answered them to your satisfaction.


Edited by Zin (09/21/18 10:04 PM)

Top
#105734 - 09/25/18 08:35 AM Re: I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left [Re: Zin]
Fluffi Offline
Short-Arsed Git
*****

Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 658
Loc: England... Then Left A Bit
Originally Posted By: Zin
Correct. Although I would remove the quotation marks there. They ARE illegal immigrants.


OK - I will accept that; neither of these people are supposed to be in Anerica.



Originally Posted By: Zin
They are paying taxes. They are also paying less in taxes than they are receiving in food stamps. So the fact that they are paying taxes really doesn't mean anything even if you were going to go that route.


Wait!...

Are you saying that two adults in full-time employment; paying whatever tax contribution is demanded by your system don't qualify for "benefits" (UK terminology, but you know what I mean)
Google suggest that US minimum wage is $7.25 / hour.
That's $290 for a 40-hour week.
That's $13,920 for a 48-week year (let's give them some time-off)
As far as I can see, that puts them into your 12% tax bracket.

Obviously; I don't know your income; but if you earn less than $38,701, or the combined income of you & Mrs Zin is less than $77,401, then the Zin family is paying the same tax percentage as Maria & Miguel.
Should YOU be eligible for foodstamps?? If you are, why not them?

FWIW, I am nowhere near the top-end UK salaries, but I would be in your 24% tax bracket.
I have no problem with my tax deductions helping those who are in-work, but who are paid less than me.



or do you mean...

That you are happy thay two adults in full-time employment don't earn enough to support themselves and their child?

If so, your "minimum wage" is the problem - not Maria / Miguel.




Originally Posted By: Zin
I won't answer for anyone but myself.

I do not believe they SHOULD be able to qualify for state support. That does not mean they do not qualify. Only that I disagree that they do. States have more power than the federal government, according to the constitution, assuming of course they aren't reliant on federal money.


WHY should they not qualify?

They are illegal immigrants - admittedly.

However, they work full-time for a (presumably egitimate) US company, and are making whatever contributions the state requires.

How would you compare them to:

1) US citizen who is the mother of 7 illegitimate children who says "I can't afford to go to work, so the state needs to pay me to stay home and look after my kids"

2) US citizen who say "I didn't know that eating 14 hamburgers a day would make ne fat. Now that I am too fat to work, I expect the state to support me."


** Please note **
The last two examples are indications of what I have to put-up with. I have no idea if that sort of thing happens in the US, so forgive me if you don't have to deal with this shit.
_________________________

Top
#105735 - 09/26/18 06:13 PM Re: I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left [Re: Fluffi]
Zin Online   waaaht-icon
Sir Sheldon
****

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 4146
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Fluffi
Originally Posted By: Zin
Correct. Although I would remove the quotation marks there. They ARE illegal immigrants.


OK - I will accept that; neither of these people are supposed to be in Anerica.

Oh no... they are likely supposed to be in America... Just not the US part of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: Zin
They are paying taxes. They are also paying less in taxes than they are receiving in food stamps. So the fact that they are paying taxes really doesn't mean anything even if you were going to go that route.


Wait!...

Are you saying that two adults in full-time employment; paying whatever tax contribution is demanded by your system don't qualify for "benefits" (UK terminology, but you know what I mean)
Google suggest that US minimum wage is $7.25 / hour.
That's $290 for a 40-hour week.
That's $13,920 for a 48-week year (let's give them some time-off)
As far as I can see, that puts them into your 12% tax bracket.

Obviously; I don't know your income; but if you earn less than $38,701, or the combined income of you & Mrs Zin is less than $77,401, then the Zin family is paying the same tax percentage as Maria & Miguel.
Should YOU be eligible for foodstamps?? If you are, why not them?

I'm not eligible for food stamps. But this goes back to my point before on where you live. If you make that 38 almost 39k in Iowa with a single child... You're doing pretty good. In Chicago or most of California... Pretty shitty.

If you are unskilled labor and have to work for the minimum why in the world would you go somewhere that it's so expensive to live?

(image)

Quote:
FWIW, I am nowhere near the top-end UK salaries, but I would be in your 24% tax bracket.
I have no problem with my tax deductions helping those who are in-work, but who are paid less than me.

Again... You are also not taking in account cost of living. If they want to do that over in California go ahead... None of my business. However if it's the federal government doing it, then I'M SUPPORTING CALIFORNIA. A place where they have more income than most countries, and it's just a state here.

Just to throw this out there... That STATE of California has a bigger economy than Britain. It's the FIFTH largest economy in the WORLD. And you want me to be happy giving that person in California that is just barely making it MORE MONEY than I make a year? You are asking ME to give THEM money because they chose to live in a higher cost state?

HELL NO.



Quote:
or do you mean...

That you are happy thay two adults in full-time employment don't earn enough to support themselves and their child?

If so, your "minimum wage" is the problem - not Maria / Miguel.

No... My problem is with Maria / Miguel. You don't get sunny Cali just because you want it. You have to be able to afford it. I'm not paying them to live there. If Cali wants to raise minimum wage IN THE STATE so they can afford it... Go ahead... I don't mind. Won't work, but I'm OK with them trying that.

I'm very against giving someone else money because they think they somehow deserve to live in a high cost area just because they are humans.

Edit: And I absolutely do make the distinction between being born there, and actively choosing to move there. You don't get to choose where you are born/raised. You do choose to when you are an immigrant. Legal or otherwise./Edit




Quote:
Originally Posted By: Zin
I won't answer for anyone but myself.

I do not believe they SHOULD be able to qualify for state support. That does not mean they do not qualify. Only that I disagree that they do. States have more power than the federal government, according to the constitution, assuming of course they aren't reliant on federal money.


WHY should they not qualify?

They are illegal immigrants - admittedly.

And now we're done. I don't have anything more to say on that subject. It's the governments job to take care of US citizens... Not anyone else. IF you want to be a US citizen, then do so.

Quote:
However, they work full-time for a (presumably egitimate) US company, and are making whatever contributions the state requires.

How would you compare them to:

1) US citizen who is the mother of 7 illegitimate children who says "I can't afford to go to work, so the state needs to pay me to stay home and look after my kids"

2) US citizen who say "I didn't know that eating 14 hamburgers a day would make ne fat. Now that I am too fat to work, I expect the state to support me."

WE have that too... Hell... I have two uncles that are on disability for being drunks. NO SHIT. That's the disability.

They don't like me. I'm ok with that.


Quote:
** Please note **
The last two examples are indications of what I have to put-up with. I have no idea if that sort of thing happens in the US, so forgive me if you don't have to deal with this shit.

I hope I answered your questions as well as you hoped this time too.


Edited by Zin (09/28/18 12:08 AM)

Top
#105736 - 09/29/18 06:14 AM Re: I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left [Re: Zin]
Fluffi Offline
Short-Arsed Git
*****

Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 658
Loc: England... Then Left A Bit
Damn!

I enjoy arguing with you because you are not an arsehole.



(further discussion to folow when I have sobered-up a bit)
_________________________

Top
#105737 - 09/29/18 11:31 AM Re: I thought illegals couldn't get on Welfare according to the Left [Re: Fluffi]
Zin Online   waaaht-icon
Sir Sheldon
****

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 4146
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Fluffi
Damn!

I enjoy arguing with you because you are not an arsehole.

That's actually more to do with you than I. I try hard to respond to people in kind.

You aren't an asshole... So I *try* not to be one.

Quote:
(further discussion to folow when I have sobered-up a bit)

Joy.

Edit: Full transparency though... California does actually have a higher minimum wage than the Federal mandate. They make $10.50 an hour if less than 25 workers in a company, $11 an hour if it's more than 25.


Edited by Zin (09/29/18 11:07 PM)

Top


Who's Online
0 registered (), 21 Zombies and 0 Big Icky Spiders that are going to bite Viv online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod, Specuuul
Moderator:  Dani, Thor, Trillian, vivian 
Recent OT Topics
Happy Thanksgiving
by Drakken Payne
11/22/18 11:21 PM
Featured Member
Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 2
Top Posters
Ellehcim 6276
baraka66 5392
Flora Green 5310
Ellisande 5132
Sawo 4795
Gallery
Phoenix Pictures

Newest Members
Ebersol, Litza, Chuyangher, toyota, mgelinas
191 Registered Users